Category: Zone BBS Icon 2006
I'm curious what the zone at large thinks of this.
Harriet_Potter (AKA Katie) was at my house last weekend when the zone contestants had to record there tracks. Because of how my laptop is made, I could not have the backing track playing for her on Vintrillo as she sang her sullection. One of the judges (Who I will not name), said that if there was time that they would mix her live performance with the kerokie version of the song she chose. This would put her on the same playing field as the others who performed this week. She actually did do her song with the backing track playing in her ear. Her song was performed alkapella on the show, as I'm sure you all heard.
Now before everyone jumps to conclusions here, I would like to go on record as saying I don't think she'll win the contest. she doesn't think she'll win either. But all that is besides the point in my opinion. I think she should have had the song mixed in to put her on the same level playing field as the other contestants. Granted she picked a song that wasn't really suited for her voice, and her talent is raw talent. However I think to play fairly that her song should have been mixed in. Sure she may get voted off and probably will at some point before the end of this contest anyway, but at least her chances of makeing it for the next few weeks would have been greater. I should add that the next two weeks will be the same, I will not be able to provide her with the means to do backing tracks on Vintrillo with the judges. However, I or someone else could mix her voice with the song sung.
John
Ok I need to reply to this. it was said that if the audio team had time, they would mix her. But keep in mind, it takes hours upon hours to mix the show that you guys here. The fact that harriet Potter did not have the right set up to do her song, is not the fault of the icon staff. I still stand by what I said on the show. She needs to work on her voice a bit. When she sings, her notes waver, more than the rest of the contestants. I would also like to make it clear that as a judge I was doing my job. Just because I live with Harriet Potter does not mean that i am going to vote her onward. If she is bad, I am obligated to say so. Dan said if he had time, he would mix her in with her track, but obviously he didn't. it takes the audio team, working together, a few days to mix the show and to make it sound as professional as you here it. So saying that, I don't think it is fair to have them also be responsible for mixing contestants in backing tracks. it is up to the contestant to use the resources they have.
As before, I'm going to preface my statement with the following disclaimer: Any opinions expressed within this post are not necessarily those of the Zone Icon staff members as a whole or in part. Furthermore, any statements delivered upon this board are to be considered unofficial.
It is hardly the responsibility of the audio team, nor the Icon Staff in part or as a whole, to compensate for the inabilities of a contestant, whether in technical or in physical matters. If we were to mix her singing with a raw karaoke track, would we then not be expected to give likewise treatment to the other contestants and mix their vocals onto a clean music track? If you then expect us to do this, would you then volunteer your services to do such a fairly taxing mixing process?
Seriously. Our hands are fairly full with mixing the show as it is. If Katie was unable to use a backing track, that is her own affair. The statement made on the show was: "You can use backing tracks." This did not imply that she had to, nor that the audio staff would attempt to mix her audio for her. Had one of the other contestants been unable to procure a backing track to use, or if one of them were incapable of setting their system up for stereo mix, we would not have given them special treatment by mixing their tracks for them.
The premise of these Icon recordings is that we want to capture the live recordings. To then violet that ideology and perform processing on the vocals after the fact would render this concept pointless -- we might as well just let people send in doctored and mastered recordings.
I cannot feel sorry for the fact that Katie was unable to perform on an even playing field as the other contestants. While I can agree that she does have at least some modicum of talent, I refuse to compensate just for her without also considering the stance of the other contestants. You can make such bids for "fairness" as her boyfriend, but I can likewise make my bids for "fairness" as one of the folk who are actually handling and producing these files.
In conclusion: No. It would not be fair for any contestant to receive special off-the-air production efforts on their performances. Beyond fixing buffer gaps, we decline to do any other forms of editing or remastering.
Kai
I am in 100 percent in agreement with Aaron. I couldn't have said it better myself, minus perhaps a few placements of commas and the like in different places... I love you, Aaron! *smiles*
His post was pretty much exactly what I would have written, so I don't feel the need to post anything more to add. Harriet Potter knew what she was going up against when she chose to do things as she did; we as the staff made it clear to her that she would be at a disadvantage doing things that way, and she chose to go through with things as is. Yes, Dan did say he would mix her track, but it was a maybe, and only if there was time, which there obviously wasn't. Call me inconsiderate, mean, an asshole, or what you will, but I have no sympathy here, at all. And no, in case anyone's wondering, this isn't a free opportunity to call me an asshole...
i agree with kai and aaron. if she is at some one else's house for the night of her perforance then that is her problem, every one else managed to sort them selves out so why couldn't she.
the icon staff have had enough to do getting this all ready for us to hear. and i think they have done a grate job, with the recordings and mixing.
that is what i have to say and good luck to the rest of the contestance
Liz, you're an ass. Sorry, but you give me an opportunity, I'm going to take it. However, I agree with all that has been said. Katie knew in advance when the performances were to be recorded. For personal reasons she chose to be at john's. that obviously contributed to her audio set up. Sadly that may have put her at a disadvantage. now, this is my opinion, I like katie's voice, and think she has tallent, but we're down to the best of the entries now, and I honestly don't see her going through to next week, and I don't think she would have with a backing track either. I also think that this is John having sour grapes as he did when he didn't reach the final ten.
Ki and all.
Firstly I would have mixed it myself. I have the software set up to mix. Also what I mean by mix is simply add her voice to the kerokie version of the track. No processing, no delay, nun of that. It couldn't have been all that hard to do. It would have been as simple as sending me the live version she did and having me paste the two files in Sound Forge together. Would've taken out the buffering (if there was any, to.) Would had to have to make it flow. Would I have done that for other contestants? Sure I would.
Kevin, it is not me having sour grapes. Didn't have them before, neither. I was just curious as to what the zone thought as a whole on this subject so thought I'd poste it here.
My point is that if she had a backing track it would have put her on the same level playing field as the other contestants. In all honesty, we will never know if that would have helped or harmed her performance. We will also never know if that would have swayed the votes one way or the other. Since aftrer all, that is not the way it happend. However, at least everyone would have been playing apples to apples, instead of appels to oranges.
And to be verry honest with you I don't think she picked good songs in general throughout the entire show. Kelly Clarkston is just not her. AC is probably her best style but her verbrado is more like Celin Dian and Wihtney Houston, and Bet Midler just those notes were a bit too low for her. As I said before, it is raw tallent, something that has to be honed in on. Just as my playing keyboard/piano needs growing if I expect to do anything with it more then just play songs from ear the way it was given to me as a guift.
Peace all.
John
and John? you wouldn't have gotten her to rerecord her vocal track again? Come on!
A couple things:
Agreed on both points, Jim.
Matt:
I wouldn't have rerecorded her. But of corse since you don't know me, you don't know that. But I speak truth here.
Jim:
Are you saying that if she is that good that the backing track would've had little-to-no bareing one way or the other?
John
I say again, that her performance is her fault. Why should the staff be held accountable for her lack of vocal track. And john, the Icon staff just can't do what you had in mind. Once that track is recored, it can't leave the audio team. We have no way of knowing if it might have been tampered with.
John, you do like making waves don't you? Is it just because she's, "Katie?"
Anyway, I didn't feel that her singing without a backing track hindered her performence. I hear no difference when she has a track behind her. Zone icon is about tallent, not your backing track.
I think that if you had have mixed her track in that would have been a little unfair to the other contestants.
also, it's just unfair to expect the staff to do tis kind of thing for her.
they have enough work already and precious little time to do it in.
You're doing a great job guys!
Regardless, I'm going to volonteer, right here, to do some mixing if need be. if any of you folks on the audio team are for some reason taxed or need me to do something, fire an email at me. One only needs to have heard audio profiles of years passed to know what i'm capable of on that level, but if you'd like further examples of more detailed productions, do let me know.
Hello, it's me. Some of you are acting like I purposely chose to go to John's for my performance. The truth is, my parents were on vacation, so I couldn't be home!
I don't think it would have made a difference whether Katie had a backing track or not. I mean I think you're really nice Katie and I'm not going to say your singing is terrible or anything, but I don't think if you had the backing track it would have made your voice sound any better or recieved more votes because of it. I'm not trying to be a bitch to you either, I'm just stating my opinion. Hugs.
All though I can see why wasn't put in I think it did put her at a disadvantiage even tough it was playing in her ear. I think that it made her voice stand out a little bit more and made things like the breathyness stand out. However I could be wrong and without hearing it with a backing track we'll honestly never know. With all that said though, I also think that in the end it would have changed the way people voted. While she did better with that song than theKelly Clarkson song, she didn't do that great of a job.
don't let this phaise you at all though Katie, keep it up. don't stop trying, and deffinitly aim towards that teaching goal...you could really help some people.
Okay I'm a lil lost here. I didn't hear any breathyness, I didn't hear any voice cracks, unless you're talking about the low notes perhaps? But my point is that it could have made a difference in the votes. We'll never know.
Aaron you know me well enough to know that I wouldn't tamper with it. I just think the game would have been played more fairly if that backing track had been there, regardless weather if it was mixed in later, or we found a way to include it in Vintrillo.
It jus would have leveled out the playing field more that's all. I'm not going to back down from that stance. Of corse I realize it wasn't the fault of the Zone ICON staff and I am not putting the blaim on them. I'm just saying there could have been a better chance if everyone was playing with the same deck of cards. She didn't have the same deck of cards to play with, so her chances weren't as strong twoard makeing it any further. And to me, she didn't have fair play no matter how you slice and dice it. I feel bad like somehow this was partly my fault, just because I didn't have the right setup. And if I had, then maybe some of those cracks wouldn't have been heard as much, maybe the breathyness wouldn't have been heard, maybe the musical backtrack would have enhanced her performance.
I realize she is not the best. However I think my lack of support (because of the backtrack problem) could've contributed to her downfall with this thing.
John
Cala,
I'm not trying to make a fuss about it. I'm just stateing opinions on this thing as I see them. I tried to look at it from all angles, and point things out in the most consstructive way as to not put blaim on anyone.
In closeing I realize that so far noone has agreed with me on this and that is okay. What's done is done now.
And as the old saying goes, opinions are like assholes. everyone's got one.
Peace,
John
Katie needs to return to voice lessons for one. Also if you are going to sing with a head set on which I could hear you are going to be off and breathy. You would be better off with no backing track at all Katie. Also That team is on vt all the time working Kai won't talk to people days at a time he's so busy mixing for zone Icon. Hell for my performance I could have used help mixxing but it is up to each contestant to have the voice and the production. If you can't use a backing track to play at the same time learn your song good enough to not need one is my oppion. These people on the staff have been very busy and if they had to mix tracks for contestants it would be unfair and would take for ever. Thanks
Candi
Unfortunately, John, getting all jacked out of shape like you are only hurts Katie's chances even more. Before you posted this topic, you should have thought of the adverse effect it would have.
Katie, you have a very pleasant voice. It needs coaching, but you have a good tone. Don't give up!
John,even though she's your girl, you don't have to be her tallent scout. it just makes you look bad, man!
John, you made a stupid statement knowing you and your limitations. You said you didn't hear breathyness, or cracking in her voice. Well like me, you are partially deaf, so you're unlikely to notice every little thing that the judges are there to pick up on.
Most if not all the contestants at one time or another have had their breathing commented on and some comments about slightly flat notes, or slight cracking, so to suggest that Katie wouldn't have had, suggests you think she should win over all the others. It's a nice idea, and though I think Katie has a nice voice, she isn't as good as some of those who are still in the competition. Acceptance of this from you would be nice. She's your girl, and so it's difficult to be totally objective, I'm sure Katie herself knows that she wasn't the best, even if she did feel at a disadvantage. Keep working at it Katie.
John has stated several times that he did not expect Katie to win. And I do not have a hearing problem and did not hear the breathiness in her final performance.
I too didn't hear any breathiness in her performance but I may not have been listening as closely as the judges, lol!
As some others have said, I think Katy has a pretty good voice - no not the best, but she can certainly sing quite well and stay on key for the most part.
I also agree that asking the audio team to do these extras wouldn't be fair because of their duties already, and putting her at an advantage over the other contestents.
As the others have said though Katy, keep up your singing. you've honestly got great potential. :)
This topic probably is really getten beat into the ground.
Kevin I dunno how many times I have to say that I didn't expect Katie to win.
I haven't voted for her not even once honestly.
She is not the best and her songs didn't showcase her voice in my opinion.
As per the audio team mixing the track, they didn't have too. I would have done it in my spare time.
I would have done it fore any other contestant that was place in this situation as well.
My mixing wouldn't have went just for her, now that wouldn't be fare.
I think I'm about done with this subject unless some other point comes up which I haven't addressed already.
Thanks
John